WOW!! |
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 Fordly56 Member / Driver  Offline
Message Posts: 184 Joined: July 6, 2014 Location: Cape May, NJ |
after two botched starts, the admin said he pushed the go button, but he must not have. so I jumped the start. when I asked what happened, I was told by two admins to keep racing. I said I didn't want to get busted for the start so lets restart. they both said I wouldn't get busted for it and keep racing. but I see I got busted anyway! WOW! and you wonder why outsiders like me don't stick around for long?? Driver of the #2 Penske Racing Ford
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| Fordly56 | Sunday, January 1, 2017 at 2:03am EST |
 Grumpy Admin, ARL Official Offline
Message Posts: 2554 Joined: May 1, 2010 Location: Fort Mill, SC, US |
I did say that, but I was overruled by other admins. << Edited on Sunday, January 1, 2017 at 9:55am EST. >> Owner/Driver of the #07 Chevrolet's for NH Autosport
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| Grumpy | Sunday, January 1, 2017 at 9:50am EST |
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DusterLag Member / Driver Offline
Message Posts: 8108 Joined: May 1, 2010 |
The incident was a clear violation violation of the race start section of our rulebook. In order to ensure fair competition we can not allow any driver to jump the start of a race and this action must be penalized and applied equally to all regardless of a misunderstanding. It is unfortunate that you misunderstood what was said by an ARL Official. Once this has occurred, there is nothing that can be done about it by the driver. Slowing down and giving up positions would not prevent a penalty and race restarts are not permitted for someone jumping the start. It is critical that all drivers follow proper race control direction. But don't forget that in the end you won the race! Regardless of the penalty. Congrats on the win! << Edited on Sunday, January 1, 2017 at 11:04am EST. >> |
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| DusterLag | Sunday, January 1, 2017 at 11:02am EST |
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Fordly56 Member / Driver Offline
Message Posts: 184 Joined: July 6, 2014 Location: Cape May, NJ |
let it be known that I'm not looking for a compromise here. I don't know what was going on behind me since I was on the pole. but this was the third restart so someone was able to ask for and got it twice! knowing this would be my last ARL race, I wanted to go out with a bang. but this wasn't the bang I wanted. by you're rules, the race should have gone on regardless of what happened at the start. it was a game generated start in normal mode, so why should it have been restarted in the first place!? Driver of the #2 Penske Racing Ford
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| Fordly56 | Sunday, January 1, 2017 at 12:06pm EST |
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DaveO TMS Admin Offline
Message Posts: 281 Joined: May 1, 2010 Location: United States |
I know I don't race online anymore. But I couldn't read this and not respond. For those who don't know I raced for years online, and have also Admin and ran online series. Dustin, Even if there is a clear violation to a rule book, rule. If an Administrator, tells a a league driver to do something during an online sanctioned race, no matter what the rule book states, the driver did as was told by an Admin official, and for that reason alone, the driver should not be penalized. That's like double jeopardy. He was following the rules of what a Admin told him right at that time. Also how many times during opening starts of races, or in other situations have Admins made decisions based on what was happening during the time of a race. Or make call's about yellow's that weren't hard coded in a rule book, or whatever. So if in the future if an Admin tells a driver to do something, and one driver says NO, it's not in the rule book. But 3 admins insist that the driver do it? What will happen, the driver will be given a penalty for not following an Admin's direction? All your doing is creating a terrible example for future problems. When this is simple text book administrative stuff. If an admin makes a call during anytime during a sanctioned race, NO league driver should EVER be penalized for listening to an ADMIN!! If an Administrator asks a driver to do something at the begining, middle or at the end of the race, and the league driver obey's that admin, the driver should not receive a penalty for that.. That is not right bud. Dustin, I think you should let this penalty be reviewed by the other admins on your staff. Sorry for my rant. But I cannot in good reason read this thread and not voice my opinion on it. << Edited on Sunday, January 1, 2017 at 12:34pm EST. >> |
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| DaveO | Sunday, January 1, 2017 at 12:29pm EST |
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DusterLag Member / Driver Offline
Message Posts: 8108 Joined: May 1, 2010 |
This is correct, the race should not have been restarted. Unfortunately, in an effort solve the confusion you were having as well as confusion about the proper start method, the Official decided to do so. Regardless, you jumped the start during both restart attempts and would have been penalized for the same thing regardless of which start was used. |
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| DusterLag | Sunday, January 1, 2017 at 12:31pm EST |
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DusterLag Member / Driver Offline
Message Posts: 8108 Joined: May 1, 2010 |
The difference here is that what the administrator says or tells Fordly56 to do after he has already jumped the start is irrelevant as there is nothing Fordly could do within the rulebook to have the penalty repealed or prevented after he has already jumped the start.
Cautions / yellow flags are very flexible in our rulebook while race starts have a strict procedure.
Let's not forget that all an administrator told Fordly was that he would not be penalized, Fordly was not told to do anything and there is nothing an Administrator could have told Fordly to do to prevent this post-race penalty per the rulebook.
I will wrap up with this, I am sick and tired of everyone blaming me for every single penalty. While I agree with the result and pushed for it to be the result to keep in line with our rulebook and procedure. The final decision was not made by me. Regardless of who made the decision, it is the decision of the ARL Officials that currently is in place. It is also an important reminder to all, and for some reason everyone wants to attack me for issuing every penalty, even if I did not; that everyone has two appeal opportunities. Appeals that are clearly spelled out in the rulebook and that I remind everyone about on a regular basis. Maybe people should stop complaining and actually try to get what they want using the available means and then complain after they are out of options. The only way the penalty can change at this point is via the appeals process. I can not just decide to change it because a couple people misunderstand the rulebook. The only thing I can do it clarify the related rules in the next rulebook to prevent this from occurring again. |
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| DusterLag | Sunday, January 1, 2017 at 12:54pm EST |
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DusterLag Member / Driver Offline
Message Posts: 8108 Joined: May 1, 2010 |
I see you edited your post a bit so wanted to add this. Fordly was not told by an Administrator to do anything except continue racing. Therefore the argument about doing what the officials were told is irrelevant. After jumping the start of the race, there is absolutely nothing Fordly could have done to prevent the penalty. Fordly misunderstood the admin, and he was the only person to misunderstand, about when the race went green. He jumped the start of the race, before all 5 other drivers did. The remaining 5 started when the green flag was actually called. |
| DusterLag | Sunday, January 1, 2017 at 12:59pm EST |
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DaveO TMS Admin Offline
Message Posts: 281 Joined: May 1, 2010 Location: United States |
I will wrap up with this, I am sick and tired of everyone blaming me for every single penalty. While I agree with the result and pushed for it to be the result to keep in line with our rulebook and procedure. The final decision was not made by me. Regardless of who made the decision, it is the decision of the ARL Officials that currently is in place. It is also an important reminder to all, and for some reason everyone wants to attack me for issuing every penalty, even if I did not; that everyone has two appeal opportunities. Appeals that are clearly spelled out in the rulebook and that I remind everyone about on a regular basis. Maybe people should stop complaining and actually try to get what they want using the available means and then complain after they are out of options. </quote> Dustin, The post I made, I was not attacking you personally. I responded to you, because you had posted in this thread.  And I responded. I'm sorry your sick and tired of it. But I have not posted about an incident I don't think on these forums in over two or more years. So please don't take this personally. I didn't know it was decided by more then one admin to give an incident. I promise I won't post or respond about this type of stuff here on the ARL forums about incidents in the future. I apologize for my first post, and did not want to cause you any type of animosity between both of us. We both work to damn hard for this community.. Again I apologize for opening my big mouth. Enjoy your New Year! Long Live Heat! |
| DaveO | Sunday, January 1, 2017 at 2:32pm EST |
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