December 2013/Total Year End Stats |
|---|
 Donaldson Contributor  Offline
Message Posts: 546 Joined: May 1, 2010 Location: North Carolina, US |
The community stats have been updated through December 31st (no more races scheduled this year). Here are some milestones that were reached this month: Race Winners for the Month of December: Donaldson - 5 Wins Speedyman11 - 4 Wins Gtsvip9 - 2 Wins Patch - 2 Wins Ucrdoh - 2 Wins Kyle - 1 Win Lepage71 - 1 Win Smitty - 1 Win Spike - 1 Win Triz - 1 Win Cruisectrl & Jes Rathbun get their 100th Top 5 finish Spike & GTSVip9 capture their 1st derby wins Donaldson captures his 4th All-star event win Bover907 gets his 100th career Lap Led Speedyman11 gets 400 career Laps Led Triz captures his 3rd career nascar heat championship 2013 Record Breakers: Donaldson passes Lepage71 for most wins in Nascar Heat History with 249 career wins Donaldson also capped off an incredible 13 race winning streak in 5 different leagues over the span of (11/2 - 12/13) in which he won every race he competed in which is now a new heat record for longest winning streak. 11/2 - Texas - ARL 11/8 - Snowke - LCHRL 11/9 - Phoenix - ARL 11/11 - Phoenix - HMS 11/15 - Chicagoland - LCHRL 11/16 - Miami- ARL 11/16 - Eldora - NHRL 11/22 - Beech Ridge - LCHRL 11/26 - Texas - TMS 12/2 - Atlanta - HMS 12/7 - Daytona - ARL 12/9 - North Carolina - HMS 12/13 - Pocono - LCHRL Most Starts in a year now belongs to Patch with 295 Starts in 2013 breaking his own previous record of 254 in 2012 Most Top 5's in a year now belongs to Patch with 230 Top 5's in 2013 breaking his own previous record of 192 in 2012 Most wins in a year now belongs to Donaldson with 76 wins in 2013 breaking Crash's 2006 previous record of 65 wins Most Laps Led in a year now belongs to Donaldson with 3,801 Laps Led in 2013 breaking Patch's previous record of 3,048 in 2012 Most Overall Championships now belongs to Donaldson with 7 championships in 2013 breaking his own previous record of 6 in 2011 Most Total Championships now belongs to Donaldson with 8 championships in 2013 breaking Patch's previous record of 7 in 2012 Most Team Championships now belongs to Twisted Metal (Donaldson & Patch) with 8 championships in 2013 breaking their own previous record of 5 in 2012. Most different winners in a year is now at 76 for 2013 breaking the previous record of 40 in 2012 There were 2 races in 2013 that made the Top 10 closest finishes ever in Nascar Heat History List: #5 - Las Vegas - HMS (Rookiesrock Over Donaldson) +0.009 #10 - Daytona - RR (JeffG24Rcn Over Rookiesrock) +0.012 2013 - Top 5 Category's: Most Starts 1.) Patch - 295 (6 HROC, 38 OWA, 15 SS, 66 ARL, 76 HMS, 26 LCHRL, 15 RR, 21 TMS, 23 NHRL, 8 FDR, 1 HF) 2.) Breeze - 220 (3 HROC, 6 SS, 53 ARL, 32 NHRL, 73 HMS, 18 LCHRL, 14 RR, 16 TMS, 4 OWA, 1 HF) 3.) Grumpy - 202 (3 HROC, 33 OWA, 9 SS, 64 ARL, 21 NHRL, 5 RR, 23 HMS, 4 OB, 24 LCHRL, 15 TMS, 1 HF) 4.) Blackknight - 159 (38 ARL, 32 NHRL, 55 HMS, 13 RR, 11 LCHRL, 9 TMS, 1 HF) 5.) Toward27 - 147 (36 ARL, 82 OB, 4 CDRS, 4 SS, 1 HROC, 15 LCHRL, 3 OWA, 1 TMS, 1 NHRL) Most Poles 1.) Patch - 55 (1 HROC, 14 ARL, 2 SS, 13 OWA, 17 HMS, 7 LCHRL, 1 NHRL 2.) Rookiesrock - 54 (33 HMS, 10 NHRL, 6 RR, 5 TMS) 3.) Donaldson - 42 (10 HMS, 19 ARL, 1 HROC, 8 LCHRL, 1 RR, 3 OWA) 4.) Ucrdoh - 20 (12 OWA, 1 ARL, 3 SS, 1 LCHRL, 2 HMS, 1 FDR) 5.) DaveO - 15 (2 SS, 9 NHRL, 4 TMS) Most Wins 1.) Donaldson - 76 (33 ARL, 16 HMS, 5 HROC, 10 LCHRL, 2 NHRL, 1 RR, 6 OWA, 2 SS, 1 TMS) 2.) Patch - 39 (20 HMS, 10 ARL, 4 LCHRL, 4 OWA, 1 RR) 3.) Rookiesrock - 38 (26 HMS, 4 TMS, 7 RR, 1 HF) T-4.) Ucrdoh - 21 (1 HROC, 15 OWA, 2 SS, 2 FDR, 1 HMS) T-4.) Lepage71 - 21 (12 NHRL, 4 LCHRL, 5 TMS) Most Top 5's 1.) Patch - 230 (6 HROC, 35 OWA, 12 SS, 54 ARL, 69 HMS, 19 LCHRL, 10 RR, 10 TMS, 8 NHRL, 6 FDR, 1 HF) 2.) Donaldson - 139 (7 HROC, 49 ARL, 26 HMS, 22 LCHRL, 7 NHRL, 3 RR, 10 TMS, 13 OWA, 2 SS) 3.) Breeze - 116 (3 HROC, 22 ARL, 3 NHRL, 3 SS, 60 HMS, 10 RR, 7 TMS, 5 LCHRL, 1 OWA, 1 HF) 4.) DusterLag - 112 (3 HROC, 29 OWA, 47 ARL, 3 RR, 5 HMS, 8 NHRL, 16 LCHRL, 1 SS, 1 HF) 5.) Spike - 100 (19 SS, 7 RR, 27 OWA, 1 HROC, 18 LCHRL, 6 TMS, 11 ARL, 5 FDR, 6 HMS) Most Laps Led 1.) Donaldson - 3,801 (1,546 ARL, 1,066 HMS, 122 HROC, 553 LCHRL, 102 RR, 57 TMS, 127 NHRL, 217 OWA, 11 SS) 2.) Rookiesrock - 3,236 (71 HROC, 2,367 HMS, 235 NHRL, 381 RR, 175 TMS, 1 ARL, 6 HF) 3.) Patch - 2,434 (364 OWA, 355 ARL, 1,340 HMS, 35 SS, 36 HROC, 36 RR, 192 LCHRL, 15 TMS, 48 NHRL, 17 HF) 4.) GTSVip9 - 1,622 (273 RR, 1,203 ARL, 15 TMS, 102 NHRL, 29 LCHRL) 5.) Lepage71 - 1.237 (761 NHRL, 274 TMS, 202 LCHRL) Most Overall Championships 1.) Donaldson - 7 (2 ARL, 1 HMS, 1 HROC, 2 LCHRL, 1 OWA) 2.) DaveO - 3 (1 SS, 2 NHRL) 3.) Rookiesrock - 3 (1 RR, 2 HMS) T-4.) GTSVip9 - 2 (2 ARL) T-4.) Triz - 2 (1 SS, 1 FDR) Most Total Championships 1.) Donaldson - 8 (2 ARL, 1 HMS, 1 HROC, 3 LCHRL, 1 OWA) 2.) DaveO - 3 (1 SS, 2 NHRL) 3.) Rookiesrock - 3 (1 RR, 2 HMS) T-4.) Timmy76 - 2 (2 OB) T-4.) DusterLag - 2 (2 OWA) T-4.) GTSVip9 - 2 (2 ARL) T-4.) Patch - 2 (1 ARL, 1 LCHRL) T-4.) Triz - 2 (1 SS, 1 FDR) Most Team Championships 1.) Twisted Metal (Donaldson & Patch) - 8 (5 ARL, 2 OWA, 1 LCHRL) 2.) Cyber Racing (DusterLag, Grumpy, Oldnslow, Spike & Ucrdoh) - 1 (1 OWA) 3.) Barton Boys A (DannyG267, Benny219, Knighty82 & Earoles110) - 1 (1 OB) 4.) NHRL Racing (Lepage71) - 1 (1 LCHRL) 5.) Team Speed Brigade (Blackknight & Breeze) - 1 (1 RR) Congratulations to all drivers on their achievements this month. All other stats can be found @ nascarheat.com/stats << Edited on Monday, December 23, 2013 at 9:53am EST. >> |
| Donaldson | Monday, December 23, 2013 at 9:33am EST |
|
Rookiesrock Contributor Offline
Message Posts: 99 Joined: May 1, 2010 Location: Hayward, Wisconsin |
I personally think that "normal" stats skew the records. Lepage's accomplishments in the heat community are trivialized. Championships, Poles and Led laps are now frivolous. The mere fact that 10 years + of numbers can be surpassed in a year or two speaks volumes. The numbers gained are insurmountable. Not to mention that the "normal" race's were ran with what I would consider cheating. Making setup changes to "fixed setups" before qualifying led to poles which equals laps led which leads to wins which leads to championships. And the fact that changes were made leave open the possibility that the "fixed setups" were NOT all equal to start with. Besides the "normal" stats there are numerous so called accomplishments that deserve and/or require an asterisk. |
| Rookiesrock | Monday, December 23, 2013 at 11:33am EST |
|
DaveO TMS Admin Offline
Message Posts: 281 Joined: May 1, 2010 Location: United States |
Hey Rook, Agree 100 percent with your statement.  Hopefully they will see your post and rectify this.. Dave << Edited on Monday, December 23, 2013 at 12:15pm EST. >> |
||
| DaveO | Monday, December 23, 2013 at 11:59am EST |
|
Donaldson Contributor Offline
Message Posts: 546 Joined: May 1, 2010 Location: North Carolina, US |
What do you mean by normal stats? I think cheating has been reported in open/fixed setups in both cases. That's basically whoever is running the server to figure out if someone is cheating or not. we have no way of knowing which races cheating was going on or not unless the message shows up in the server or whoever running the server see's something that isn't right. (in that regards people who have been caught cheating, their stats were adjusted per the results once the penalties were shown) It's either record every race or none of them at all. Keep in mind this is all just for fun, no "real" awards are given out to anyone. It's true the heat community has changed drastically. For numerous years NHRL was the only league, so if you didn't like running there than tough luck i guess. Now you have multiple leagues. Arguments can be made either way for which league is the best in quality of racing, competition, formats, etc.. If you polled 10 random drivers you would probably get multiple answers. "The numbers gained are insurmountable" - True, but i really cant stop people from racing. If guys like patch want to run 230 races a year he has the right to do it. "The mere fact that 10 years + of numbers can be surpassed in a year or two speaks volumes" - No numbers like this have been broken compared to anyone's "overall" stats within 1 or 2 years nor 3 ,4 or 5 years. Although if speedyman keeps winning he will probably be over 200 wins in the next 3 years. "Besides the "normal" stats there are numerous so called accomplishments that deserve and/or require an asterisk" - Good luck figuring that out in which world war 3 doesn't happen. (i tried to bring something similar like this up in regards to certain championships not counting (basically ones where your winning a title for only 3 or 4 races) and everyone went berserk, attacking the wrong person nonetheless. Stats can also be skewed in any league which only has like 6 or 7 drivers racing. You basically are getting a top 5 finish for free. (but like i said, i have to record everything and every race or people lose their minds). Daveo - Hopefully they will see your post and rectify this.. I'm not sure what you want me to change or how to go about figuring out which stats should be asterisk and whatnot? You guys can be more than welcome to do your own version if you wish. Also there's no "they", if you need to blame someone or have a question, please direct all things to me, otherwise innocent bystanders get attacked. I'll reiterate again, this project has always been and always will be just for fun. I love doing the monthly stats sheet because its so fun to go through and see wow, this driver got 10,000 laps led or that dude finally broke through and got his 1st win, or 1st championship, or wow did you see the race at OWA, that finish ranked # 2 on the all time listing, etc..etc..I try to be fair and even ask multiple leagues and drivers for their input on stats and changes that make sense. I would think if everyone hated the way i do it, someone would have gone through and done their own version by now, but i guess i do a pretty good job because nobody else has done that. << Edited on Monday, December 23, 2013 at 2:05pm EST. >> |
| Donaldson | Monday, December 23, 2013 at 1:41pm EST |
|
DaveO TMS Admin Offline
Message Posts: 281 Joined: May 1, 2010 Location: United States |
Okay this is getting real funny. Every time I come back here, your original post keeps changing, means it keeps getting edited, and things change.. LOL ================================================================================== Since I'm having some trouble trying to quote you. I'm just going to rewrite what you said, and put it in bold and reply. Daveo - You guys can be more than welcome to do your own version if you wish. I didn't come here to cause an arguement. I came here to support an opinion I read about.. I for one cannot and will not take on creating stats. I just wrote that I supported someone's views. Right now, I do several things for the community. Converting tracks, modeling my butt off. I do think I try to do my fair share around this community. So there is no way possible I would take on anymore resp.. Like I said, I completely understand to what Rookie is trying to say.. Basically it's this.. Arcade mode does skew things a bit, considering that most all other leagues run Hardcore or Expert modes. << Edited on Monday, December 23, 2013 at 2:16pm EST. >> |
||
| DaveO | Monday, December 23, 2013 at 2:14pm EST |
|
Rookiesrock Contributor Offline
Message Posts: 99 Joined: May 1, 2010 Location: Hayward, Wisconsin |
While I understand Donaldson that it takes time and great effort to compile and sort all these stats, promoting yourself during the process makes it self serving.
And the "normal" stats I speak of are the ones in which unfair practices are used to gain an advantage thusly amassing poles, led laps etc. And since you choose to tackle the "cheating" comment. Going backwards or backing up before qualifying in a series with "Fixed setups" is blatant cheating. If you think differently then I suggest you just scrap the stats altogether. << Edited on Monday, December 23, 2013 at 2:36pm EST. >> |
||
| Rookiesrock | Monday, December 23, 2013 at 2:18pm EST |
|
Donaldson Contributor Offline
Message Posts: 546 Joined: May 1, 2010 Location: North Carolina, US |
Running in any mode, mod , tire wear, race lengths, etc... for that matter has the potential to skew everything. What would you suggest? << Edited on Thursday, January 9, 2014 at 9:58am EST. >> |
| Donaldson | Monday, December 23, 2013 at 2:19pm EST |
|
Donaldson Contributor Offline
Message Posts: 546 Joined: May 1, 2010 Location: North Carolina, US |
promoting myself as i broke a record..just like i promote ANY OTHER DRIVER that breaks a record..(see monthly stats Jan - Dec). << Edited on Monday, December 23, 2013 at 3:40pm EST. >> |
| Donaldson | Monday, December 23, 2013 at 2:20pm EST |
|
Donaldson Contributor Offline
Message Posts: 546 Joined: May 1, 2010 Location: North Carolina, US |
"Going backwards or backing up before qualifying in a series with "Fixed setups" is blatant cheating. If you think different then I suggest you just scrap the stats altogether." i'm the not the person who determines what is cheating. that's for the race admin to determine or the league officials of the league/event.. Backing up during qualify is legal in real nascar, drivers are allowed to back up during their qualify run as long as they don't cross the start/finish line. (i don't know if this rule is posted in any league rules on heat or not, you'd have to look). i know some leagues ban qualifying all together and just have random grid starts.. But like i said, you are asking the wrong person as to what everyone is going to consider cheating, you have to take that up with the league admin/officials or their rule book per league. I've always gone with what league admin/officials post in the results. If they found someone deemed of cheating, their stats were adjusted per the penalties in the results. << Edited on Monday, December 23, 2013 at 2:42pm EST. >> |
| Donaldson | Monday, December 23, 2013 at 2:40pm EST |
|
DusterLag Member / Driver Offline
Message Posts: 8108 Joined: May 1, 2010 |
The battle over race mode's has been an intense one over the years, although I missed most of it much of the community was divided into two groups the "Normal" racers and the "Expert/Hardcore" racers. When I first found Heat I joined NHRL (Sorry to everyone back then lol) and did a lot of Normal mode racing on IRF (often being told why each was "bad" ). Therefore I always expect there to be strong feelings when the subject comes up, and there is certainly nothing wrong with that - everyone is entitled to their own opinion on the matter and I think its great for the community. And this debate will definitely never be solved in this topic or any other as its been going on for 13+ years in one form or another! lol Cheating: an interesting topic, I can honestly say that I have heard someone accuse near everyone else of cheating at one point. If you have ever won a race in Heat, then there's a 99% chance that someone has accused you of cheating. It's simply one of those things that league officials must deal with, taking everyone accusation and seeing if there is really any practical way to determine if its possible or has ever been done. Another interesting thing: everyone has their own view on what is "cheating", some people think modifying setups beyond a mod's limitations is cheating - some don't, some think backing up during qualifying is cheating - some don't (both of which I know has occurred over the years). I could go on and on, but in the end it's up to each individual league to determine what cheating is and implement measures therefore. There is no "perfect", and really there shouldn't be. We're all unique people, unique leagues and have unique beliefs which lead to unique decisions (some stronger than others). It's great that we're all different, it means options for everyone else. Some might compare this to the United States, we're all different and have strong opinions but in the end we all make it work and can live together (for the most part). I've made the mistake before not only in this community but outside it, don't take someone else's opinion personally - 99% of the time they are simply expressing their view and they mean no harm to your view.  Sorry about the rambling, and I probably repeated myself a few times, sorry. Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays, Happy New Year and best wishes to every community member and their families! << Edited on Monday, December 23, 2013 at 8:43pm EST. >> |
| DusterLag | Monday, December 23, 2013 at 8:42pm EST |
|
DaveO TMS Admin Offline
Message Posts: 281 Joined: May 1, 2010 Location: United States |
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you also Duster, and your entire family... Long live heat everyone!! Hopefully Santa will bring us all more shiney toys next year.. Dave << Edited on Monday, December 23, 2013 at 9:13pm EST. >> |
||
| DaveO | Monday, December 23, 2013 at 9:11pm EST |
|
JessRathbun Member / Driver Offline
Message Posts: 164 Joined: May 1, 2010 Location: New England, US |
H.M.S has that rule PIT ROAD **IF DECIDE TO GO BACKWARDS DOWN PIT ROAD, (EITHER FORWARD OR REVERSE), OR ON THE TRACK YOU WILL BE PENALISED AND MOST LIKELY SUSPENDED... SO YOUR BETTER OFF GOING FORWARD AND AROUND THE TRACK AGAIN EXPECTIALY IF YOU HAVE PASSED BY YOUR PIT STALL..THEY WONT BE THERE!!! UNTIL YOU GO AROUND AGAIN.** |
||
| JessRathbun | Thursday, January 2, 2014 at 1:47pm EST |
|
Donaldson Contributor Offline
Message Posts: 546 Joined: May 1, 2010 Location: North Carolina, US |
Your rule jes is during an actual race. We are referring to just the qualifying session. Currently no leagues have any rules about backing up during qualifying so its legal and has been legal to do in every league until a league does enforce a rule about it. I tested out every type of race track and It appears this would only affect 2 race tracks (daytona and talladega), any other race track really isn't going to give you any type of advantage regardless of the mod or race mode. So basically the argument is invalid. 1.) No leagues have any rules about it and 2.) It would only affect 2 race tracks no matter what mod or race mode. The irony of this is qualifying really doesn't mean anything at these 2 tracks as you can go from 1st to last and vice verse in a half lap depending on the draft (so if anyone wants there to be some type of rule please contact the league admin of the league you race in.) << Edited on Wednesday, January 8, 2014 at 11:53am EST. >> |
| Donaldson | Wednesday, January 8, 2014 at 9:50am EST |
|
Spike Contributor Offline
Message Posts: 464 Joined: September 15, 2010 Location: United States |
|
||
| Spike | Thursday, January 9, 2014 at 7:57am EST |
|
Donaldson Contributor Offline
Message Posts: 546 Joined: May 1, 2010 Location: North Carolina, US |
You would probably have to make it mandatory that everyone save their qualify replay every race and then submit it to the admin after the race. The admin then would have to view the replay and record the time on the replay and make sure it matches the qualify time on the Q log in the sever to make sure people were submitting the correct replay.
That I would agree with. If you are purposely manipulating the setups to go above and beyond its limitations you are altering the game itself. Any time you run an open setup race, you run the risk of people doing this. There's no way in knowing unless its blatantly obvious on the track or you get a cheating message from the game. We all have to rely on the league officials and admins running the server to find out if any suspicious activity is going on. << Edited on Thursday, January 9, 2014 at 9:34am EST. >> |
||
| Donaldson | Thursday, January 9, 2014 at 9:31am EST |
|
Rookiesrock Contributor Offline
Message Posts: 99 Joined: May 1, 2010 Location: Hayward, Wisconsin |
Donaldson wrote, "You would probably have to make it mandatory that everyone save their qualify replay every race and then submit it to the admin after the race. The admin then would have to view the replay and record the time on the replay and make sure it matches the qualify time on the Q log in the sever to make sure people were submitting the correct replay." Heat has no option for saving Qualifying replays so there is no way to review a qualifying run. Qualifying is and has always been based in trust. DusterLag wrote: some people think modifying setups beyond a mod's limitations is cheating Donaldson wrote, "That I would agree with. If you are purposely manipulating the setups to go above and beyond its limitations you are altering the game itself. Any time you run an open setup race, you run the risk of people doing this. There's no way in knowing unless its blatantly obvious on the track or you get a cheating message from the game. We all have to rely on the league officials and admins running the server to find out if any suspicious activity is going on." Modified setup parameters are not recognized by individual mods. One of the patches corrected this. If the parameter is out of bounds the mod defaults to the maximum or the minimum, whichever is closer. Donaldson wrote, "We are referring to just the qualifying session. Currently no leagues have any rules about backing up during qualifying so its legal and has been legal to do in every league until a league does enforce a rule about it. I tested out every type of race track and It appears this would only affect 2 race tracks (daytona and talladega), any other race track really isn't going to give you any type of advantage regardless of the mod or race mode. So basically the argument is invalid. 1.) No leagues have any rules about it and 2.) It would only affect 2 race tracks no matter what mod or race mode. The irony of this is qualifying really doesn't mean anything at these 2 tracks as you can go from 1st to last and vice verse in a half lap depending on the draft (so if anyone wants there to be some type of rule please contact the league admin of the league you race in.)" While NASCAR allows a car to drive backwards to the start finish line but not past it, they do NOT allow a car to stop in their pits and make adjustments. A league advertised and labeled "normal with fixed setups" should be just that. I think the "spirit" of that type of league leads drivers to believe that all cars are equal and that the drivers talents/skills are what become measured. Not what trick allows someone's car to be better than the others. Changing a setup before qualifying in a fixed setup league goes against the belief that everyone starts "even". I can't believe that some people think that this is okay because there is no rule against it. Gaining an unfair advantage is disrespectful to the other league members. It shows poor character and in my book is flat out cheating. I suggest that going forward in theses types of leagues that the admins explain to the rest of the drivers that prequalifying changes are allowed and how to accomplish it. Transparancy. All these arguements for allowing the backwards driving is just an attempt to justify and redress the fact that it is not right. Furthermore, "normal" mode is the most cheatable mode of them all. A person can **replace** the default setup and replace it with his own setup unbeknownst to anyone with no cheating message. Since it doesnt show up in the rules and isn't detected, is it okay to do? According to some it looks like it is. Heat is a racing game that requires silent Gentlemen agreements. I've lost some respect for some drivers recently. No need to get all mad at me about this. You can't make a mad man mad. << Edited on Sunday, January 12, 2014 at 3:49am EST. >> |
| Rookiesrock | Thursday, January 9, 2014 at 11:20pm EST |
|
DusterLag Member / Driver Offline
Message Posts: 8108 Joined: May 1, 2010 |
I wanted to address a couple things Rookiesrock brought up on behalf of the Arcade Racing League, its members should already know this but I wanted to make sure those outside our league know our polices. 1) The ARL implemented a policy a couple months ago where we utilize Heat's "Identical Cars" mode which ensures all drivers are using the correct setup during a race. Also while we know that cheating is possible, our investigations did not find any cheating occurring in the ARL. While we regularly received complaints of drivers cheating, on-track activity and performance of all drivers were easily within the capability of the correct setup's limits. 2) The ARL made a decision early on that making changes during qualifying is permitted (and often encouraged and openly discussed in pre-race / post-race chat). In-Game changes are also permitted during a race's pit stops. Whether you back up or drive around the track for your first lap to pit you loose a lap of qualifying in order to make the changes. We have never considered this cheating as it is an regular open function of the game. << Edited on Friday, January 10, 2014 at 5:48am EST. >> |
| DusterLag | Friday, January 10, 2014 at 5:40am EST |
|
Rookiesrock Contributor Offline
Message Posts: 99 Joined: May 1, 2010 Location: Hayward, Wisconsin |
|
||
| Rookiesrock | Friday, January 10, 2014 at 10:52am EST |
|
Donaldson Contributor Offline
Message Posts: 546 Joined: May 1, 2010 Location: North Carolina, US |
- good catch, scratch that idea
I don't see how that's true. There's only been 1 instance of cheating going on in normal/fixed setups throughout the years i can remember from NASR, LCHRL, ARL, OWA, etc.. that was detected during a race. A driver was in the wrong G3 cup mod but didn't get the cheating message and was noticed during the race review replay. They probably just loaded the wrong mod by mistake but they were Dq'ed from the event so it had no affect on anything. I know myself and others have been accused of cheating in ARL which is understandable. But i'd say about 80% of the races I've won there have been won on just pure pit strategy and nothing else (just review any race replay i'm in and you'll see firsthand). You could have had anyone driving and it would have been the same result. Obviously pitting for fuel only, opposed to getting 4 tires will gain me a lot of time. For the cup mod, it was surprisingly actually better to not even change tires during your pit stop as the worn out tires were actually quicker than new ones (i think everyone has finally caught wind to that). Nationwide is less forgiving on tire wear. All depends on the mod. Plus there's always certain things you can do to get a tiny bit quicker lap time like shifting gears at the right moment or running in the line that doesn't bog the car down the most, a majority of the tracks you kinda have to be a certain way around the whole track otherwise you lose a tiny bit of speed. But if someone wanted to cheat in normal/fixed mode it would be fairly easy to tell based on race lap times or officials would see something not right on the replay. I don't think there's ever been a significant difference in lap times at any race for normal/fixed setup leagues. I don't see anyone running away with the fastest lap time award every week. Plus everyone is on the same gearing and would have to pit at the same laps. If something was a miss someone would be out there running 3 or 4+ more laps than what they could get. Also you got some of the best league officials out there (dusterlag, grumpy, ucrdoh, gtsvip9) all monitoring your every move so you'd be pretty stupid to even want to try anything out of the ordinary. To touch back onto the qualifying thing. Other than the big tracks i don't see how pitting and making changes will give you any type of advantage at all the other tracks. If you back up and pit you will be either on your last lap already or 1 to go. So you'll basically have a half lap to get up to speed, in normal mode there's really not anything major you can change that's going to give you a huge boost. I just tested out new hampshire, las vegas, martinsville, texas doing this and it didn't help at all, basically running within the same lap time vicinity as the normal setup. Watkins glen didn't help either, plus i would assume you'd time out during your Q run as that took forever to do. Normal mode is more about running through the corner smoothly and not bogging down for speed. With the big tracks where you can do this, qualifying is meaningless anyway as its all draft dependent. But let people do whatever they want because in every league out there its all legal to do. Me personally I'd rather see just random grid starts and drop Qing all together. It's what I've done in the races I've ran. If you haven't tried out a fixed setup league or normal mode, you should give it a try. The races are fantastic and its actually a level playing field. If you are a new guy just starting out its the prefect fit as your running the same thing everyone else is in. |
||||
| Donaldson | Friday, January 10, 2014 at 12:10pm EST |
|
DaveO TMS Admin Offline
Message Posts: 281 Joined: May 1, 2010 Location: United States |
Howdy Folks, I noticed this discussion has been added since the last time I've visited, and thought I would add a few things to it myself. For people who read this and don't know me. Just to give you some background, I've been a diehard online racer for over a decade before retiring, and also have 19 championships to my name.. Per the HF Stats thingie. Okay, back to the discussion... Back in the day when I raced hardcore be it on ovals or road course tracks.. Mind you several road course tracks have qualifying has to take place rather quickly, or you will time out, because of how big the track is, and your only allowed so much time to qualify. So you don't waste time when it comes to qualifying. Anyhow this goes for both oval and road course tracks. Back in the day when I raced full time for either RC or oval.. We raced hardcore mode either 2x, 3x or 4x wear... Taken that into consideration first, you bet you will see slight differences in pole times with different wear factors. Then you also have to factor in most guys myself included would have a setup built just for qualifying, and also a race setup. Nobody that I know of back in the day, is going to take his fuel setup, with gears made for a fuel strategy race, or his tires set at a certain psi, and use that to qualify with. That's your first mistake in saying there are no differences. Yes there is, if someone used a a fuel setup to qualify with.  2nd factor is. Back in the day if you built your own qualifying setup. Most folks would create a qualifying setup to where there tires were only good for a great qualifying run. This has to do with how much air is in the tire. (psi) Not race set tires. 3rd factor is. Qualifying setups are looser then a normal racing setup. So you can find that extra tenth, or what not.. That's why after qualifying sessions, you will here some guys complain, damn I hit the wall while qualifying, or spun out. Reason being they were running a looser then normal racing setup, and they were driving on the edge to try to find that extra tenth while flying by the seat of there pants.. LOL So, I'm sorry Donaldson, I don't agree with your results stating there is only an advantage at plate tracks. If a driver took a little bit of time to build a halfway decent qualifying setup, with awesome speed gears, a slightly looser setup, then there race setup, and practiced qualifying with it, and learning a great line to qualify with, you better believe you can improve your qualifying lap times.. Just check any veteran drivers records.. This is in regards to racing hardcore with open setups. And, this can all be achieved without backing up on the freaking track! Taken the time to learn how to build a proper qualifying setup..======================================================= Now regarding normal mode qualifying.. This is in regards to qualifying with a raced fixed setup. With NOT being allowed to make any changes what so ever to the race fixed setup and not being allowed to having open setups for qualifying... Only thing you can do to have better qualifying times.. Key word here is PRACTICE! Practice getting use to driving the setup, and doing several practice runs at qualifying with it. Plus learn the fastest line around the track.. Have fun racing boys!!! << Edited on Saturday, January 18, 2014 at 6:30pm EST. >> |
| DaveO | Saturday, January 18, 2014 at 4:44pm EST |
| Activity |
|---|
|
There are currently 0 users and 11 guests online. We have a total of 15527 posts in 4025 topics within 24 forums.
Users Browsing: None |