New Series & Cautions Feedback |
|---|
 DusterLag Member / Driver  Offline
Message Posts: 8108 Joined: May 1, 2010 |
Hi All, After our first couple races with caution conditions and our new hardcore open setups series I wanted to open up a conversation. Grumpy and I have a few things to work on... - One note being a caution on the last lap during the Daytona 200 race. This was entirely my own fault - I had notified everyone several times that there would not be one and then I called it anyway. For that I apologize. - A second being the location and method of picking up the field by the pace car, again mainly my fault for failing to notify Grumpy when to enter the track. These two things should be good on the next race at Atlanta. Is there anything we can do to help you guys? Is there anything not working? |
| DusterLag | Monday, February 22, 2016 at 11:35am EST |
 puttzracer Admin, ARL Official Offline
Message Posts: 810 Joined: September 13, 2014 Location: Maryland, US |
One thing you might want to look at is what is considered an incident for the purpose of calling the cautions. I can think of at least one, maybe two incidents that might have warranted a caution, but wasn't because the two cars didn't actually touch. One of the drivers said there was an incident where a driver spun in front of him, and he took evasive action to avoid hitting the other car and ended up partially losing control and smacking the wall. He said if he had known no caution would come out, he would have just let the collision between himself and the spinner happen so there would be a caution. Not sure that's an angle that you would want to promote. Driver of the #46 TMS Wolfpack Chevrolet
ARL Official |
|
| puttzracer | Monday, February 22, 2016 at 5:40pm EST |
 KartRacer63 Moderator Offline
Message Posts: 388 Joined: May 1, 2010 Location: Ashland, KY, US |
I think this is the biggest thing right now. In my personal opinion, it should be a caution if two cars negatively affect each other, no matter if they touch or not. |
||
| KartRacer63 | Monday, February 22, 2016 at 6:05pm EST |
|
DusterLag Member / Driver Offline
Message Posts: 8108 Joined: May 1, 2010 |
From behind the scenes a bit during the race.. There are two incidents that occurred Saturday night related to this, though I do not know if either are the one you speak of. Once we get the race replay we may see some additional stuff to work on. 1) A wreck or potential wreck occurred, one official did not see the incident and the other official caught only some of it and did not call a caution due to lack of information and general confusion. 2) An "incident" apparently occurred but neither officials witnessed it and did not hear anything about it until may half a lap later, too late to see anything and information was scarce. We are working to have all officials at a given race on the same page and supervising different sections of the track at the same time. |
||
| DusterLag | Monday, February 22, 2016 at 6:12pm EST |
|
DusterLag Member / Driver Offline
Message Posts: 8108 Joined: May 1, 2010 |
Yes, if two cars "negatively affect eachother" it would indeed be a caution. I believe the two incidents I recall from the night occurred because of the above reply and not because of caution rules. (Though I could be wrong?) In fact, the way the rules surrounding caution conditions are written, a two cars would only need to have the potential to "endanger" another car for a caution to be called. For example if a car spins out on their own on the track and another car is coming up on them at race speed. A second example a car exits the pits straight onto the track in front of oncoming cars. A third example is a disabled car parked on pit road (truly disabled with damage or an engine issue). A sub note on that one, we can see your damage so will know if you are truly damaged or are just trying to force a caution - this is banned in the rulebook. Thanks for the good feedback guys, keep it coming. |
||
| DusterLag | Monday, February 22, 2016 at 6:17pm EST |
|
DusterLag Member / Driver Offline
Message Posts: 8108 Joined: May 1, 2010 |
It's also important to note that, much like with NASCAR, cautions are at the discretion of Officials who have to make a call on the fly - while we have some rules to guide us - it's hard to get every call perfect. At the same time - if you don't like a call, we want to hear about it. We don't want 10 minutes of complaining on TeamSpeak, but a mention about what happened or didn't happen and why you feel it's wrong at the time (as you guys did during Saturday's race) is perfect. |
| DusterLag | Monday, February 22, 2016 at 6:21pm EST |
|
Donaldson Contributor Offline
Message Posts: 546 Joined: May 1, 2010 Location: North Carolina, US |
maybe one thing to help the admins viewing the race would be if you are involved in an incident or see an incident in front or behind you just say "Driver X crashing" or something so they can quickly scroll to that vehicle to see whats going on. Or wreck in turn 1, 2, backstretch, 3, 4..etc.. any info would help out i think. i remember seeing one accident involving fordly and like 15 seconds later he said something like thats not gonna be a caution? but by that time it really wouldn't show anyone wrecking. if he had mentioned right away, the # 2 wrecking in T1..the admins could have quickly spotted it out. << Edited on Monday, February 22, 2016 at 7:05pm EST. >> |
| Donaldson | Monday, February 22, 2016 at 7:01pm EST |
|
DusterLag Member / Driver Offline
Message Posts: 8108 Joined: May 1, 2010 |
Excellent idea. |
||
| DusterLag | Monday, February 22, 2016 at 7:06pm EST |
|
DusterLag Member / Driver Offline
Message Posts: 8108 Joined: May 1, 2010 |
We continue to learn a lot after this second race. We made a mistake, one that a couple of you caught during the race but one that I misunderstood at the time. Under a caution Rookiesrock received the so-called "lucky dog" as we were preparing to go green Rookie was informed that he needed to start at the rear of the grid in front of a penalty car (BK). This was incorrect and mistake. I wanted to apologize to Rookiesrock for this mistake and clarify that the luck dog driver must remain at the back of the field until pit road is opened. From this point forward the "lucky dog" pass no longer plays into field order. Please continue to post any feedback you guys may have. |
| DusterLag | Tuesday, March 1, 2016 at 11:51am EST |
|
DusterLag Member / Driver Offline
Message Posts: 8108 Joined: May 1, 2010 |
Also under the same caution, the field ended up lining up incorrectly for the green in the front. As Speedyman11 selected the outside line for his restart, Breeze moved ahead a position and moved into the inside front row position when this should have been where ltfireman1604 started (Link to moment in replay). For the next race we'll ask ahead of time which lane and try to double check the field before the green is waved. |
| DusterLag | Tuesday, March 1, 2016 at 11:55am EST |
|
Speedyman11 TMS Admin, ARL Event Moderator Offline
Message Posts: 69 Joined: October 19, 2013 |
On that restart lt was on the inside of row 1, and breeze started on the inside of row 2. if you check the video you can see that breeze, kart and i were 3 wide exiting turn 2 with lt infront of us all. |
||
| Speedyman11 | Tuesday, March 1, 2016 at 2:09pm EST |
|
DusterLag Member / Driver Offline
Message Posts: 8108 Joined: May 1, 2010 |
You are correct, I mixed up Breeze and ltfireman's cars (both blue). It appears that restart was correct in the front. |
||||
| DusterLag | Tuesday, March 1, 2016 at 2:25pm EST |
|
ltfireman1604 Member / Driver Offline
Message Posts: 66 Joined: March 31, 2014 Location: Georgia, US |
I was actually a lap down due to this caution because i think i should have went around the pacecar and speedy. When i came up to the "field" it was the pace car then speedy then me and then breeze. I was a lap down and breeze was in second on the scoring, but i started in the second position on track. I kept saying that i shouldn't be where i was at, but i guess no one could hear me. << Edited on Friday, March 4, 2016 at 7:21pm EST. >> |
||
| ltfireman1604 | Friday, March 4, 2016 at 7:20pm EST |
|
DusterLag Member / Driver Offline
Message Posts: 8108 Joined: May 1, 2010 |
If you were not the first car - one or more laps down when the caution came out, then you would not get a lap back (AKA the lucky dog). You would not receive a wave around either unless Speedy pitted with you being the next car behind him and not on the same lap as him and you did not pit. |
||||
| DusterLag | Friday, March 4, 2016 at 8:51pm EST |
|
Rookiesrock Contributor Offline
Message Posts: 99 Joined: May 1, 2010 Location: Hayward, Wisconsin |
The yellow flags are a welcome addition to this series. There have been situations and calls that have been questionable but overall I commend the series admins for the exceptional effort and dedication they have with this league. Thank you all. Keep up the good work. P.S. When in doubt, put Speedyman @ the tailend of the longest line. |
| Rookiesrock | Thursday, April 28, 2016 at 3:21pm EDT |
|
Breeze Member / Driver Offline
Message Posts: 61 Joined: May 1, 2010 Location: "The Valley of the Sun" Phoenix,Arizona |
I apologize for my outburst @ Jess over Teamspeak after the Kansas race.What got me so upset was the way Jess attempted to divert my question directed to an ARL Official (Ie; Dusterlag)by saying he didnt know what i was talking about ,and asking me what lap i was referring to and so on. He is not an official and should have just kept quiet. AS far as the question of why a caution was not called,now that I am much calmer,i would like an explanation.To have missed seeing it is in my opinion almost impossible as the focus of the officials since it was a restart, should have been here.All of us were bunched up and Bk had just suddenly slowed. Thats when Speedyman , well .... watch the video TURN DOWN THE VOLUME FIRST << Edited on Sunday, May 1, 2016 at 5:50pm EDT. >> |
| Breeze | Sunday, May 1, 2016 at 3:59pm EDT |
|
DusterLag Member / Driver Offline
Message Posts: 8108 Joined: May 1, 2010 |
Let's start with a quote from the rulebook.
Now to summarize and relate... Cautions are at the discretion of the League Officials officiating the particular race (minimum 2). That being said we have 3 "guideline" rules which we list in the rulebook as examples (above). In this particular case, just a single car wrecked (Breeze) and was not disabled. You can go back in time this season and find many instances where a single car wrecks, or is wrecked through contact with other vehicles, but no caution is called. This is because only one car involved in the accident actually "wrecks". Further simplification, we should not call a caution for a single car hitting the wall and spinning on its own. Please do not confuse this with a single car hitting the wall and spinning across the track in front of oncoming cars, because there are oncoming cars at danger there would be a caution - during Kansas there was at least one instance when a caution was called for this reason. Hope this helps. |
||
| DusterLag | Monday, May 2, 2016 at 7:25am EDT |
|
Breeze Member / Driver Offline
Message Posts: 61 Joined: May 1, 2010 Location: "The Valley of the Sun" Phoenix,Arizona |
I totally disagree with this. Your assumption that my vehicle was not damaged is incorrect It was not disabled but it was severely damaged and as a result i was lapped by the entire field. The guidelines for caution consideration should be expanded to include a vehicle that is slammed into and wrecked by another vehicle, and know fault of his own. If another driver causes a driver to crash,its along the same line as in the reckless driving rule whereas he is affecting the actions of a competitor or possibly the outcome of a race . Whereas the driver that caused the wreck is issued a penalty or not ,(to be determined after the race is over and wrecked driver has no say in that matter) does not undo the damage caused. The only recourse the wrecked driver may get is the caution being called.If a driver wrecks another driver by whatever means, whats to keep him from continuing to do so, one vehicle at a time,He may or may not be penalized but the other guys will be S.O.L. I thought that the main reasoning behind having the cautions in Heat was to make the races more competitive. ANd my car did hit the wall, went onto its side and then spun down across the track, where an oncoming car ,if there had been one closer, could have hit it, << Edited on Monday, May 2, 2016 at 7:28pm EDT. >> |
| Breeze | Monday, May 2, 2016 at 7:25pm EDT |
|
DusterLag Member / Driver Offline
Message Posts: 8108 Joined: May 1, 2010 |
I assure you that is no way did we make an "assumption that my vehicle was not damaged". Damage to cars plays no role in determining a caution.
League Officials will certainly take this into consideration, but the rules may or may not be changed.
The incident we are discussing was a racing accident, no reckless driving occurred and therefore no penalties would be issued.
If someone intentionally wrecks another driver, the minimum penalty is -100 Points per, Disqualification, Event Suspension.
It was certainly my reason for proposing the addition of cautions. However I worked to strike a balance, calling cautions every other lap because one car hit the wall (however it happened) would get old and make for no race at all. I understand your frustration (as the car wrecked) but we have decided to not call cautions for single-car wrecks and feel it is the best balance we can strike between increasing competition and allowing actual racing to occur. |
||||||||||
| DusterLag | Tuesday, May 3, 2016 at 8:27am EDT |
|
Breeze Member / Driver Offline
Message Posts: 61 Joined: May 1, 2010 Location: "The Valley of the Sun" Phoenix,Arizona |
A single car wreck to me would be a car that spun himself ,drove haphazardly onto the apron, or clipped the wall and wrecked. The incident that we are discussing was a multi-car multi-hit incident whereas the instigating driver was luckily able to save his vehicle from crashing and continued on.My vehicle was hit hard enough to actually climb up the wall and flip onto its side.JUST short of being upside down,,which in almost any race would warrant a caution.,especially in a NASCAR race! I think that the ruling on whether its a caution should be determined by the situation on an individual basis. To say,after 2,3,or 4,or more, cars slammed into one another but only one car wrecked ,and the rest continued on,that that is a single car wreck and not eligible for a caution is plain ridiculous. |
||
| Breeze | Tuesday, May 3, 2016 at 11:49am EDT |
| Activity |
|---|
|
There are currently 0 users and 9 guests online. We have a total of 15527 posts in 4025 topics within 24 forums.
Users Browsing: None |